Subjects:
Priestly Vocations
Inclusivity of Ministry
[05/Feb/2002:20:56:47]
<cathy_rusin> Welcome to tonight's chat session!
[05/Feb/2002:20:57:13] <cathy_rusin> My name is Cathy Rusin, I'm
a campus minister at NC State.
Priestly Vocations
[05/Feb/2002:20:58:22]
<cathy_rusin> jacko: Hi Cathy, my name is Jack
[05/Feb/2002:20:58:27] <cathy_rusin> Hi Jack!
[05/Feb/2002:20:58:55] <cathy_rusin> jacko: I was just wondering
something about priest...
[05/Feb/2002:20:59:26] <cathy_rusin> About a particular priest?
[05/Feb/2002:20:59:57] <cathy_rusin> jacko: Are priest allowed
to have worldly goods? I mean, I have seen many priest driving expensive cars,
such as BMW's, and I am confused. Are they not supposed to be above worldly
desires?
[05/Feb/2002:21:00:09] <cathy_rusin> There are two types of priests,
Jack.
[05/Feb/2002:21:00:24] <cathy_rusin> One type belong to religious
orders...
[05/Feb/2002:21:00:40] <cathy_rusin> like Francisans, Domincans,
Jesuits...
[05/Feb/2002:21:00:55] <cathy_rusin> and they take vows of poverty,
chastity and obedience.
[05/Feb/2002:21:01:22] <cathy_rusin> Poverty means that they don't
own personal goods, what they have is communal.
[05/Feb/2002:21:01:34] <cathy_rusin> And there are diocesan priests...
[05/Feb/2002:21:02:18] <cathy_rusin> they usually stay within a
certain geographical area (a diocese), and promise chastity and obedience ...
[05/Feb/2002:21:02:25] <cathy_rusin> but not poverty.
[05/Feb/2002:21:03:07] <cathy_rusin> So, diocesan priests COULD
drive expensive cars.
[05/Feb/2002:21:09:18] <cathy_rusin> Hello!
[05/Feb/2002:21:10:08] <cathy_rusin> Welcome to tonight's chat
session...
[05/Feb/2002:21:10:41] <cathy_rusin> Any topic you might want to
talk about?
[05/Feb/2002:21:12:31] <cathy_rusin> Lent's coming up next week
... does anyone have any particular things you do during Lent?
[05/Feb/2002:21:15:37] <cathy_rusin> Are you having trouble posting
a comment?
[05/Feb/2002:21:15:55] <cathy_rusin> If so, please exit the room
and then return...
[05/Feb/2002:21:35:28] <cathy_rusin> Hello!! Welcome to the Chat
Session!
[05/Feb/2002:21:37:12] <cathy_rusin> There are three of us in the
auditorium tonight... anything you want to chat about?
[05/Feb/2002:21:42:48] <cathy_rusin> Welcome to the Chat Session
tonight!
[05/Feb/2002:21:44:10] <cathy_rusin> There are four of us in the
auditorium now...
[05/Feb/2002:21:44:22] <cathy_rusin> Any topics you want to chat
about?
For more information on this topic, click here.
[05/Feb/2002:21:44:49] <cathy_rusin>
jacko: Yes
[05/Feb/2002:21:44:56] <cathy_rusin> Hi Jacko, what's up?
[05/Feb/2002:21:46:19] <cathy_rusin> jacko: Ms. Rusin, what
is the justification for keeping women out of the Catholic priesthood? Is the
difference anatomical, psychological, or purely theological?
[05/Feb/2002:21:46:41] <cathy_rusin> Well, that's a complicated
question...
[05/Feb/2002:21:47:12] <cathy_rusin> The Church would say that
they don't feel they are able to ordain women...
[05/Feb/2002:21:47:22] <cathy_rusin> for a number of reasons:
[05/Feb/2002:21:47:47] <cathy_rusin> All of Jesus' apostles were
male.
[05/Feb/2002:21:48:12] <cathy_rusin> When the priest is presiding
at mass, he is acting "in persona Christi"...
[05/Feb/2002:21:48:24] <cathy_rusin> "in the person of Christ"
[05/Feb/2002:21:48:27] <cathy_rusin> jacko: The Church is unable,
or unwilling?
[05/Feb/2002:21:49:17] <cathy_rusin> The term used is "unable"
... since we don't find it in the tradition of the history of being Church
[05/Feb/2002:21:49:39] <cathy_rusin> jacko: That is, is there a
theological impediment, or is it just plain chauvenism?
[05/Feb/2002:21:50:08] <cathy_rusin> The theological part is that
a male more closely images Jesus
[05/Feb/2002:21:50:21] <cathy_rusin> with that "in persona Christi"
[05/Feb/2002:21:50:47] <cathy_rusin> If a priest is to be as Christ
for the Church (the "Bride of Christ")...
[05/Feb/2002:21:51:13] <cathy_rusin> then in a literal sense it
makes a better image for the priest to be male.
[05/Feb/2002:21:51:50] <cathy_rusin> So, do we not change because
we can't change..
[05/Feb/2002:21:52:10] <cathy_rusin> or because of fear or 'chauvenism'
as you say?
[05/Feb/2002:21:52:15] <cathy_rusin> Hard to tell.
[05/Feb/2002:21:52:22] <cathy_rusin> Here's one more reason....
[05/Feb/2002:21:52:35] <cathy_rusin> The Catholic Church is "universal"
[05/Feb/2002:21:52:55] <cathy_rusin> we are world-wide, and in
some countries, women are not respected at all.
[05/Feb/2002:21:53:09] <cathy_rusin> Women aren't considered human
beings, or have rights...
[05/Feb/2002:21:53:51] <cathy_rusin> so giving a woman a leadership
(service, really) role would cause scandal or be ineffective.
[05/Feb/2002:21:54:21] <cathy_rusin> So, do we wait for everybody
to catch up?
[05/Feb/2002:21:54:56] <cathy_rusin> jacko: Are we obsessed with
the male anatomy? If I understand the doctrine correctly (and I'm the first
to claim ignorance) it seems that Jesus was relatively ambivalent toward his
own gender. He makes very few gender-role statements in the gospels, as far
as I know.
[05/Feb/2002:21:55:23] <cathy_rusin> Well ....
[05/Feb/2002:21:55:49] <cathy_rusin> Jesus was very open and inclusive
of women in his ministry.
[05/Feb/2002:21:56:15] <cathy_rusin> To the point where people
wondered if he was really a holy man.
[05/Feb/2002:21:56:52] <cathy_rusin> And he did turn things upside
down....
[05/Feb/2002:21:56:56] <cathy_rusin> jacko: find your "universal"
reasoning rather specious.
[05/Feb/2002:21:56:59]
<cathy_rusin> jacko: The Catholic church -- and this is something
I am supposed to be proud of -- takes pride in being a positive force for social
change around the world. It has hard-line stances on poverty and basic human
rights (excluding, for the moment, women's rights, gay rights, etc.).
[05/Feb/2002:21:57:06] <cathy_rusin> jacko: As a woman, do you
feel the church should be making advances in those arenas as well?
[05/Feb/2002:21:57:18] <cathy_rusin> Great points and observations.
[05/Feb/2002:21:57:46] <cathy_rusin> It does seem that we as Church
do an excellent job with the social problems of the world.
[05/Feb/2002:21:58:03] <cathy_rusin> And have a difficult time
resolving the tensions within our own family.
[05/Feb/2002:21:58:26] <cathy_rusin> I think that conversation
is a value.
[05/Feb/2002:21:59:00] <cathy_rusin> Openness and ability to share
differing perspectives should be encouraged, so that we allcan learn more about
God who is
[05/Feb/2002:21:59:15] <cathy_rusin> beyond our definitions and
beyond our understanding
[05/Feb/2002:21:59:24] <cathy_rusin> jacko: I guess it's something
that cannot be resolved in this discussion.
[05/Feb/2002:21:59:31] <cathy_rusin> If only it could! ;-)
[05/Feb/2002:22:00:11] <cathy_rusin> jacko: But I appreciate your
perspective on the issue, and I think it's something the Catholic family needs
to have a hard "come to Jesus" discussion about.
[05/Feb/2002:22:00:31] <cathy_rusin> Oh, yes! Great phrase.
[05/Feb/2002:22:01:01] <cathy_rusin> jacko: I was just curious
if anywhere in the bible it says "no women may be priests," and specifically,
if Jesus ever said it.
[05/Feb/2002:22:01:26] <cathy_rusin> You know, the Vatican convened
a commission of Scripture scholars, in the 60's I think...
[05/Feb/2002:22:01:34] <cathy_rusin> to discuss just that question.
[05/Feb/2002:22:01:58] <cathy_rusin> And the commission found no
proof that women could not be ordained.
[05/Feb/2002:22:02:12] <cathy_rusin> They also found no proof that
they should.
[05/Feb/2002:22:02:44] <cathy_rusin> jacko: So why side with the
later?
[05/Feb/2002:22:03:07] <cathy_rusin> Caution.... I guess.
[05/Feb/2002:22:03:22] <cathy_rusin> After 2,000 years of history
one way,
[05/Feb/2002:22:03:47] <cathy_rusin> it's daunting to switch.
[05/Feb/2002:22:04:53] <cathy_rusin> jacko: You said earlier that
there were some countries where women would not be respected as leaders of the
Church, but what about those countries, such as the US, where it is an afront
to women's rights for a woman to be denied this opportunity
[05/Feb/2002:22:05:09] <cathy_rusin> What do you think about this?
[05/Feb/2002:22:05:27] <cathy_rusin> I've been 'talking' a lot!
[05/Feb/2002:22:06:05] <cathy_rusin> jacko: I think that we, the
US and other first-world countries, should set an example
[05/Feb/2002:22:06:39] <cathy_rusin> How so?
[05/Feb/2002:22:06:54] <cathy_rusin> jacko: There are many other
Christian denominations, well at least Protestant faiths, where women are allowed
to preach the word of Jesus fron the pulpit
[05/Feb/2002:22:07:12] <cathy_rusin> Yes, there are.
[05/Feb/2002:22:07:37] <cathy_rusin> I'd have to go back to this
principle of Catholic meaning universal...
[05/Feb/2002:22:07:41] <cathy_rusin> jacko: I have been to those
churches, and the women were excellent pastors.
[05/Feb/2002:22:07:58] <cathy_rusin> Menaingthat we place a big
value on unity (communion)
[05/Feb/2002:22:08:23] <cathy_rusin> So, if the Catholic Church
of the US decided to go ahead and ordain women...
[05/Feb/2002:22:08:55] <cathy_rusin> we'd be cutting ourselves
off from the unity of the rest of the Catholics in the world.
[05/Feb/2002:22:09:07] <cathy_rusin> jacko: In fact, I think that
they perhaps had a better grasp for the emotions that men often lack... an important
aspect in leading a church
[05/Feb/2002:22:09:51] <cathy_rusin> The Holy Spirit gives the
gifts necessary for teaching, preaching and pastoral care
[05/Feb/2002:22:10:12] <cathy_rusin> to those whom the Holy Spirit
decides to give those gifts!
[05/Feb/2002:22:11:06] <cathy_rusin> Do people with recognize the
gifts, develop them, use them for the good of the world?
[05/Feb/2002:22:11:42] <cathy_rusin> And if they aren't able to
in some organized way, can we think creatively about other ways to utilize them,
rather than let them go to waste?
[05/Feb/2002:22:22:26]
<cathy_rusin> markc: hello?
[05/Feb/2002:22:22:38] <cathy_rusin> Hello!
[05/Feb/2002:22:22:52] <cathy_rusin> Sorry, Mark - I'm slow typing
sometimes...
[05/Feb/2002:22:23:03] <cathy_rusin> markc: its ok
[05/Feb/2002:22:23:19] <cathy_rusin> Thanks, there are 4 of us
here tonight...
[05/Feb/2002:22:23:38] <cathy_rusin> any topic you want to chat
about, anyone?
[05/Feb/2002:22:23:44] <cathy_rusin> markc: really?
[05/Feb/2002:22:23:46] <cathy_rusin> markc: i don't see any other
names. where are they at?
[05/Feb/2002:22:24:08] <cathy_rusin> The other names don't show
up, but there's a counter at the bottom of your screen
[05/Feb/2002:22:24:18] <cathy_rusin> Welcome to the 5th person!
[05/Feb/2002:22:24:28] <cathy_rusin> markc: ahh cool
[05/Feb/2002:22:24:46] <cathy_rusin> Lent's coming up next week...
[05/Feb/2002:22:24:57] <cathy_rusin> any plans for how to observe
the season?
[05/Feb/2002:22:24:59] <cathy_rusin> markc: i got your email and
figured i'd stop in
[05/Feb/2002:22:25:09] <cathy_rusin> Thanks - glad you did!
[05/Feb/2002:22:26:25] <cathy_rusin> Once when I was in college,
I gave up playing the video game down in the snack room of my dorm
[05/Feb/2002:22:26:38] <cathy_rusin> I'm not sure what I did with
the saved quarters....
[05/Feb/2002:22:27:01] <cathy_rusin> maybe laundry! But let's hope
I did something 'charitable'!
[05/Feb/2002:22:27:50] <cathy_rusin> Any other favorite things
to do (or not do) for Lent?
[05/Feb/2002:22:32:04] <cathy_rusin> Hello everyone!
[05/Feb/2002:22:32:27] <cathy_rusin> What's our next topic tonight?
[05/Feb/2002:22:49:50] <cathy_rusin> Okay, any topics we want to
talk about?
[05/Feb/2002:22:50:52] <cathy_rusin> There are 2 of us still in
the auditorium...
[05/Feb/2002:23:02:17] <cathy_rusin> Until next week, good night!