Subjects:
[02/Apr/2002:20:44:46] <Father Phillip> If you have questions,
please feel free to post them at any time!
[02/Apr/2002:21:09:34] <Father Phillip> hey, sebastian
[02/Apr/2002:21:12:52] <Father Phillip> can i help you?
[02/Apr/2002:21:14:56] <Father Phillip> sebastian: More than a
question, i have a concern. Please decide if it's appropriate: I am catholic
and feel strongly that way. I am also gay and never have had any doubts about
it. I have been engaged in many situations that the church does not approve
of. I am 30 and I have not confessed or taken communion since I was 19, the
main reason being my being gay. I am in the process of letting my siblings know
about my condition and even though I sense nothing wrong with being gay, I feel
like it is driving me away from my family and the church. I will admit celibacy
is probably a good thing, but I don't think I have learnt to be by myself, so
i am probably misled by my inclination on which I have little power.
[02/Apr/2002:21:15:20] <Father Phillip> sebastian: I wonder what
are your thoughts
[02/Apr/2002:21:15:29] <Father Phillip> my first thought is that
God loves you very much
[02/Apr/2002:21:16:27] <Father Phillip> one of the most amazing
things about the God Who revealed Himself in Jesus is that God loves all people
deeply, passionately, totally
[02/Apr/2002:21:17:06] <Father Phillip> as long as a person has
an openness to the Divine Spirit, we can do nothing to make God stop loving
us
[02/Apr/2002:21:17:27] <Father Phillip> sebastian: my thoughts
are: I am gay by nature; by nature also I don't know how to be alone; I am aware
that a full christian life would imply renouncing to sex but I don't know that
i am ready for such a commitment. But at the same time I am looking for a compromise
[02/Apr/2002:21:17:51] <Father Phillip> sebastian: so that i can
live with the church
[02/Apr/2002:21:18:01] <Father Phillip> it's wonderful that you
want to live with the Church!
[02/Apr/2002:21:18:10] <Father Phillip> and the Church wants you
to live with us!
[02/Apr/2002:21:18:46] <Father Phillip> you are always welcome
in the community of the Church!
[02/Apr/2002:21:18:47] <Father Phillip> always!
[02/Apr/2002:21:19:34] <Father Phillip> my suggestion to you is
that you find a priest with whom you feel comfortable, one whom you trust, one
whom you believe to be a faithful 'son of the Church'
[02/Apr/2002:21:19:53] <Father Phillip> and ask that priest if
you might enter into a relationship of "spiritual direction" with
him
[02/Apr/2002:21:20:21] <Father Phillip> make a commitment on your
part to seek spiritual direction on a regular basis for an extended length of
time
[02/Apr/2002:21:20:33] <Father Phillip> and be honest with the
spiritual director
[02/Apr/2002:21:20:41] <Father Phillip> talk candidly about your
feelings and concerns
[02/Apr/2002:21:20:44] <Father Phillip> about being gay
[02/Apr/2002:21:20:49] <Father Phillip> and about the rest of your
life
[02/Apr/2002:21:21:17] <Father Phillip> share with the spiritual
director those places where you feel God is most active and alive in your life
[02/Apr/2002:21:21:36] <Father Phillip> and share with the director
those places where you feel isolated from the Divine Spirit of God
[02/Apr/2002:21:21:55] <Father Phillip> and work with the director
to help chart a way of living that will bring you closer to God
[02/Apr/2002:21:22:05] <Father Phillip> God wants to be an active
part of your life
[02/Apr/2002:21:22:17] <Father Phillip> and God wants you to be
an active part of the community of faith
[02/Apr/2002:21:22:23] <Father Phillip> ...and YOU want that as
well!
[02/Apr/2002:21:22:35] <Father Phillip> which means that you have
a really good heart and a deep faith
[02/Apr/2002:21:22:42] <Father Phillip> that is impressive, sebastian!
[02/Apr/2002:21:22:48] <Father Phillip> you seem like a very good
man!
[02/Apr/2002:21:22:52] <Father Phillip> sebastian: i have had past
experience with jesuits and St. Ignatius' exercizes, and that was when i got
the closest
[02/Apr/2002:21:23:36] <Father Phillip> the Jesuits have a marvelous
tradition of spiritual direction, and seeking out a good Jesuit spiritual director
will, i suspect, be a real blessing and a help to you!
[02/Apr/2002:21:24:21] <Father Phillip> and hang in there -- don't
go for simplistic answers
[02/Apr/2002:21:24:32] <Father Phillip> struggle with who you are
and who God is calling you to be
[02/Apr/2002:21:25:08] <Father Phillip> and you will discover that
God really likes and loves you!
[02/Apr/2002:21:25:12] <Father Phillip> sebastian: I will do that.
I should go now and study. Thanks for your kind words
[02/Apr/2002:21:25:19] <Father Phillip> sure; have fun studying!
[02/Apr/2002:21:25:27] <Father Phillip> good luck!
[02/Apr/2002:21:25:30] <Father Phillip> ciao
[02/Apr/2002:21:34:27] <Father Phillip> hi...sorry, i got disconnected,
but am back now -- so if anybody has a question, please feel free to post it!
The Catholic Preferential Option for the Dispossessed
[02/Apr/2002:22:37:27] <Father
Phillip> rudyk: Father Phillip: I am curious whether you think the Catholic
Church has long-term viability as a world religion, given its retrograde stances
on homosexuality, women's rights, abortion, and contraception. Do you think
there is any hope that the Church will ever change its position on these issues
to be be more in line with contemporary philosophy?
[02/Apr/2002:22:38:00] <Father Phillip> well, yes, rudyk, i do
think that the Catholic Church has long-term viability as a world religion!
[02/Apr/2002:22:38:09] <Father Phillip> that probably doesn't surprise
you, though
[02/Apr/2002:22:39:04] <Father Phillip> one of the most fundamental
points-of-view that the Catholic Church holds is the importance of the "least
among us" to God
[02/Apr/2002:22:39:35] <Father Phillip> the poor, the dispossessed,
the oppressed, the weak, those who have no other voice
[02/Apr/2002:22:39:51] <Father Phillip> those are the ones whom
Jesus called His sisters and brothers in Matthew's Gospel
[02/Apr/2002:22:40:46] <Father Phillip> and affirming the sanctity
and worth of every human person is something the Catholic Church will always
do
[02/Apr/2002:22:41:40] <Father Phillip> and precisely that affirmation
of human dignity is what -- from a 'natural' point of view -- will make the
Catholic Church have that long-term viability
[02/Apr/2002:22:42:14] <Father Phillip> the poor and the dispossessed
simply do not have an advocates in our materialistic, consumer-driven, globalized
world
[02/Apr/2002:22:43:06] <Father Phillip> and the advocacy that the
Catholic Church offers on behalf of "the least of our brothers and sisters"
will make them look to the Church far into the future
[02/Apr/2002:22:43:32] <Father Phillip> of course, we also have
Jesus' own promise in Matthew 16 that the "gates of hell" will not
prevail against the Church!
[02/Apr/2002:22:43:40] <Father Phillip> that's a pretty good thing
to rely on as well!
[02/Apr/2002:22:44:22] <Father Phillip> I am sure that the Catholic
Church's teaching on the sanctity of human life is so embedded in the most elemental
parts of our faith that it will never change
[02/Apr/2002:22:45:24] <Father Phillip> i would not want the Church's
teaching about the worth and dignity of every human life to change!
[02/Apr/2002:22:45:49] <Father Phillip> that is at the core of
who we are as a community of faithful persons, trying to follow God's call and
direction
[02/Apr/2002:22:47:38] <Father Phillip> anything that could be
construed to minimize the worth and value of every human life will have to examined,
i suspect...but that bedrock of affirming the dignity of every human life cannot
change, i don't think
[02/Apr/2002:22:48:02] <Father
Phillip> rudyk: Except the Church's current stance on abortion, I think
that current doctrine -- on women in the priesthood, on the rights of gays and
lesbians to live and love the way God created them, and on the rights of all
people to enjoy sexual intercourse without the constant threat of pregnancy
-- is hardly an affirmation of "human dignity." A large portion of
the world agrees, and that portion grows day by day.
[02/Apr/2002:22:48:23] <Father Phillip> well, a couple of comments,
rudyk, about what you say...
[02/Apr/2002:22:48:51] <Father Phillip> i think it's not wise to
"lump" all these important issues into one 'basket,' so to speak
[02/Apr/2002:22:49:13] <Father Phillip> each issue should probably
be considered on its own merits or lack thereof...
[02/Apr/2002:22:49:52] <Father Phillip> so, without going into
each particular issue, i would just comment on what seems to be the underlying
premiss of your comment/question,
[02/Apr/2002:22:50:28] <Father Phillip> namely, that since "A
large portion of the world agrees, and (since) that portion grows day by day"
that portion must be right...
[02/Apr/2002:22:50:45] <Father Phillip> "Truth" is not
decided by a majority vote
[02/Apr/2002:22:51:37] <Father Phillip> for example, the apparent
majority of Germans supported the Nazi regime when it put Jewish people, Gypsies
and gay people into concentration camps and then killed them
[02/Apr/2002:22:51:59] <Father Phillip> but just because a majority
appeared to support those positions does not make the position right
[02/Apr/2002:22:53:02] <Father Phillip> so, rather than pointing
to a majority of folks who think one thing or another, i would suggest that
we need to look at the merits of a particular question and try to understand
those merits in the context of what the Gospel teaches
[02/Apr/2002:22:53:45] <Father Phillip> and most importantly, i
would think that we always and in everything need to listen very, very carefully
to that "small, still voice of God" as God tries to lead and guide
us
[02/Apr/2002:22:54:07] <Father Phillip> rudyk: Well put, and a
good point, but "truth" also cannot stand on a platform of pure reason
or doctrine without practicality and people to support it. And at some point,
the "majority" position becomes accepted as the "truth."
This, hopefully, is how truth is discovered. Might it be possible that we are
in the process of discovering truth?
[02/Apr/2002:22:54:29] <Father Phillip> surely, "truth"
has to have people to support it!
[02/Apr/2002:22:54:35] <Father Phillip> you're certainly right
about that, i think
[02/Apr/2002:22:55:05] <Father Phillip> but i do not believe that
the "majority" position necessarily SHOULD become accepted as the
"truth"
[02/Apr/2002:22:56:11] <Father Phillip> for example, i think the
majority of people tell lies -- i certainly have, God forgive me! -- but just
because the majority of us have done it all too often, i am not aware of any
'moral' teaching that says that lying is a good thing
[02/Apr/2002:22:56:37] <Father Phillip> rather, i would suggest
that we are, indeed, in a process of discovering truth
[02/Apr/2002:22:57:10] <Father Phillip> the Scripture -- in John's
Gospel -- says that the Spirit of God, the "Paraclete," will LEAD
is into all truth
[02/Apr/2002:22:57:24] <Father Phillip> discovering the Truth is
a process -- being led is always a process
[02/Apr/2002:22:58:20] <Father Phillip> in fact, even one of the
most conservative Popes of the last century, Pius XII, in one of his encyclicals,
"Humani generis," talked about what is usually called "the development
of doctrine" within the community of faith
[02/Apr/2002:22:58:48] <Father Phillip> so i think it's not unreasonable
to say that discovering truth is a process for us more generally
[02/Apr/2002:22:59:07] <Father Phillip> rudyk: But perhaps the
majority opinion "should" become accepted in cases where the "majority"
supports human dignity. And in the examples that I mentioned, that seems the
case to me. Again, impossible to divorce the argument from the specifics. I
think history is rife with examples of the majority tugging both toward and
away from what we might today call truth.
[02/Apr/2002:22:59:52] <Father Phillip> again, rudyk, i think you're
right on the money about the way history is full of those 'dialectical' pulls
[02/Apr/2002:23:00:01] <Father Phillip> toward truth and away from
truth
[02/Apr/2002:23:01:49] <Father Phillip> i think one of the most
important issues, though, is to have some bedrock, core, transcultural Truth
which can serve as a "plumb line" as we try to measure which "tugging"
by the majority is leading us toward truth and which "tugging" by
the majority is only APPARENTLY leading us toward truth
[02/Apr/2002:23:03:15] <Father Phillip> my candidates for that
irreducible Truth are: 1. God is real; 2. God is love; 3. EVERY human life is
infinitely precious in God's eyes...and then there are some others that I am
not going to try to articulate here; ok? :-)
For more information on this topic, click here.
[02/Apr/2002:23:03:31] <Father Phillip> rudyk: How does that work,
however, with the infallibility of the Pope speaking ex cathedra? I don't know
much about it, but it seems like it's somewhat hard to retract some elements
of doctrine.
[02/Apr/2002:23:04:05] <Father Phillip> well, the Popes have only
spoken infallibly, that is "ex cathedra," twice in the history of
the Catholic Church
[02/Apr/2002:23:04:30] <Father Phillip> in 1850 Pope Pius IX infallibly
defined the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary
[02/Apr/2002:23:04:52] <Father Phillip> and in 1954 Pope Pius XII
infallibly defined the Bodily Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary
[02/Apr/2002:23:05:24] <Father Phillip> other than that papal statements
do not have an infallible character -- i think it would be safe to say
[02/Apr/2002:23:06:00] <Father Phillip> Papal statements need to
be respected by the consciences of Catholics, of course, but that status as
"really, really important to us" is not the same as being "infallible"
[02/Apr/2002:23:12:30] <Father Phillip> the point being, i suppose,
in relation to your question: "retracting" is never really the issue
in terms of doctrine
[02/Apr/2002:23:13:08] <Father Phillip> the Catholic Church has
long recognized that, while the Truth itself is unchanging, the language in
which that Truth is expressed is temporally and culturally limited
[02/Apr/2002:23:13:32] <Father Phillip> as such the language of
what is called "dogmatic exposition" needs to be regularly looked
at
[02/Apr/2002:23:14:07] <Father Phillip> and sometimes needs to
be revised so that language which speaks to a particular culture and time can
be found with which to express the timeless Truth
[02/Apr/2002:23:14:18] <Father Phillip> okey-dokey?
[02/Apr/2002:23:15:46] <Father Phillip> any other questions?
[02/Apr/2002:23:18:45] <Father Phillip> well, that's all for tonight
folks!
[02/Apr/2002:23:18:54] <Father Phillip> thanks for joining us at
CatholicQandA.org
[02/Apr/2002:23:19:06] <Father Phillip> see you next Tuesday at
9:00 p.m. Eastern Time