Subjects:
God
Marriage
Mary
Catholicism
[26/Feb/2002:20:33:32] <Father Phillip> Hi! If anybody wants to ask a question, I'm here...just write in the box and press enter...have fun!
Catholic/Non-Catholic Marriage
Click here for more information on this topic.
[26/Feb/2002:21:08:23] <Father Phillip> emmie: when a non catholic
marries a catholic do they have to raise their children in the catholic faith
[26/Feb/2002:21:08:34] <Father Phillip> what a good question!
[26/Feb/2002:21:08:57] <Father Phillip> the Catholic Church assumes
that parents want the very best for their children
[26/Feb/2002:21:09:16] <Father Phillip> and the Catholic Church
itself wants the very best for those children
[26/Feb/2002:21:09:50] <Father Phillip> while we feel very strongly
that we must respect the consciences, especially the consciences of people in
matters of religion,
[26/Feb/2002:21:10:30] <Father Phillip> we also are not shy about
saying that we believe God has called us to be part of the Catholic community
of faith
[26/Feb/2002:21:11:02] <Father Phillip> and therefore, we are comfortable
saying that we feel being Catholic is the very best thing for us -- because
it is what God is calling us to do
[26/Feb/2002:21:11:26] <Father Phillip> so, with regard to children,
we are happy to say that we want the very best for those children
[26/Feb/2002:21:11:48] <Father Phillip> and we since we believe
that being Catholic is the very best thing for us, we want those children to
have that 'very best' as well
[26/Feb/2002:21:12:42] <Father Phillip> the consequence of that
desire to give the children the very best is that we ask the Catholic partner
in the marrige to do everything that she or he can do to bring any children
God may entrust to the couple in the Catholic faith
[26/Feb/2002:21:13:05] <Father Phillip> in that way, we are asking
the Catholic party in the marriage to give to her or his children 'the very
best'
[26/Feb/2002:21:13:42] <Father Phillip> in no way, by asking the
Catholic partner in marriage to make this promise, are we denigrating the integrity,
goodness and/or faithfulness of the non-Catholic partner in marriage
[26/Feb/2002:21:14:07] <Father Phillip> we just feel that we have
to honest and up-front about wanting the very best for the children
[26/Feb/2002:21:14:38] <Father Phillip> and saying that being raised
in the Catholic community constitutes the 'very best' for those children from
our point-of-view
[26/Feb/2002:21:14:40] <Father Phillip> ok?
Annulments
[26/Feb/2002:21:18:05] <Father
Phillip> Anna: I have a question.
[26/Feb/2002:21:18:10] <Father Phillip> go for it!
[26/Feb/2002:21:18:39] <Father Phillip> Anna: What is the difference
between a divorce and an annulment and why is an "annulment" so important to
the Catholic faith (as opposed to Protestants)
[26/Feb/2002:21:18:53] <Father Phillip> so, tonight is marriage
night!
[26/Feb/2002:21:19:27] <Father Phillip> a divorce is a statement
on the part of a civil authority -- usually in the United States that authority
is a state court --
[26/Feb/2002:21:19:36] <Father Phillip> that a marriage has irreparably
broken down
[26/Feb/2002:21:19:59] <Father Phillip> and that no further civil
legal involvement accrues to the parties who had contracted the marriage
[26/Feb/2002:21:20:06] <Father Phillip> does that make sense, Anna?
[26/Feb/2002:21:20:18] <Father Phillip> ok
[26/Feb/2002:21:20:46] <Father Phillip> then, about a decree of
nullity, which is the technical name for what is usually called an 'annulment'...
[26/Feb/2002:21:21:24] <Father Phillip> this gets sort of involved
so stay with me..if you have a question about what i say, post it as i write
out this answer and i'll try to respond appropriately as we go
[26/Feb/2002:21:22:04] <Father Phillip> a decree of nullity is
a statement by the Catholic Church that we believe is made under the prayerful
guidance of the Holy Spirit to the following effect:
[26/Feb/2002:21:22:46] <Father Phillip> even though all the parties
involved may have honestly and truly thought at the time the marriage was undertaken
that a valid marriage had, in fact, been entered into
[26/Feb/2002:21:23:20] <Father Phillip> all of the required components
of marriage according to the mind of the Catholic Church were not present at
the time the marriage was entered into and therefore
[26/Feb/2002:21:23:31] <Father Phillip> no marriage ever actually
existed
[26/Feb/2002:21:23:40] <Father Phillip> even though all the parties
thought there was
[26/Feb/2002:21:23:54] <Father Phillip> the next logical question,
of course, is:
[26/Feb/2002:21:24:10] <Father Phillip> what are the 'required
components' for a marriage
[26/Feb/2002:21:24:12] <Father Phillip> right?
[26/Feb/2002:21:24:29] <Father Phillip> ok
[26/Feb/2002:21:24:53] <Father Phillip> there are six components
for a valid, sacramental marriage according to the mind of the Catholic Church
[26/Feb/2002:21:24:58] <Father Phillip> and a preface :-)
[26/Feb/2002:21:25:04] <Father Phillip> the preface is this:
[26/Feb/2002:21:25:13] <Father Phillip> God calls people to marriage
[26/Feb/2002:21:25:29] <Father Phillip> marriage is not something
that people just take upon themselves
[26/Feb/2002:21:25:32] <Father Phillip> marriage is a vocation
[26/Feb/2002:21:25:40] <Father Phillip> it is God's gift and call
to some people
[26/Feb/2002:21:25:55] <Father Phillip> not everybody is, in fact,
called to marriage
[26/Feb/2002:21:26:27] <Father Phillip> for a person to be fulfilled
and content in marriage she or he has to have received the gift of God's call
to be married
[26/Feb/2002:21:26:50] <Father Phillip> those folks who just get
married because it's 'the next step' or because they think they just should...
[26/Feb/2002:21:26:51] <Father Phillip> well,
[26/Feb/2002:21:27:08] <Father Phillip> those folks are usually
going to end up unfulfilled -- even miserable
[26/Feb/2002:21:27:21] <Father Phillip> simple because they 're
not doing what God has called them to do
[26/Feb/2002:21:27:44] <Father Phillip> always and in every case
doing what God calls us to do is the ONLY way to insure that we will be fulfilled
and content
[26/Feb/2002:21:27:52] <Father Phillip> the preface ends this way:
[26/Feb/2002:21:28:08] <Father Phillip> figuring out if a person
is called by God to marriage has two steps
[26/Feb/2002:21:28:28] <Father Phillip> first, the person must
prayerfully discern whether she or he is called to marriage 'in general'
[26/Feb/2002:21:28:41] <Father Phillip> the question in this first
stage is something like
[26/Feb/2002:21:29:02] <Father Phillip> "does God want me to be
married so that i might best respond to God?"
[26/Feb/2002:21:29:29] <Father Phillip> if the answer to this first
question is 'yes!' then the person may move on to the second question
[26/Feb/2002:21:29:39] <Father Phillip> the second question runs
sort of like this:
[26/Feb/2002:21:29:53] <Father Phillip> "is God calling me to marry
this particular person?"
[26/Feb/2002:21:30:13] <Father Phillip> we cannot aske the question
well until AFTER we've asked the first question an
[26/Feb/2002:21:30:21] <Father Phillip> and heard God's response
to it
[26/Feb/2002:21:31:03] <Father Phillip> now...for our purposes
tonight, we're going to assume that the guy and girl have asked these two question
and gotten affirmative answers from God on both questions
[26/Feb/2002:21:31:10] <Father Phillip> so, the minister of the
Church
[26/Feb/2002:21:31:14] <Father Phillip> which is often a Priest
[26/Feb/2002:21:31:18] <Father Phillip> but doesn't have to be
[26/Feb/2002:21:31:28] <Father Phillip> it can be a Religious woman
or lay person
[26/Feb/2002:21:31:38] <Father Phillip> but the person representing
the Church community
[26/Feb/2002:21:31:53] <Father Phillip> helps the couple to discern
if 6 things are present in their relationship
[26/Feb/2002:21:31:56] <Father Phillip> with me, Anna?
[26/Feb/2002:21:32:08] <Father Phillip> ok
[26/Feb/2002:21:32:35] <Father Phillip> the six things must all
be present; this is not a 'majority vote' situation -- it's all or nothing
[26/Feb/2002:21:32:45] <Father Phillip> and these six things are
the following
[26/Feb/2002:21:32:52] <Father Phillip> 1. Do you love each other?
[26/Feb/2002:21:33:09] <Father Phillip> there are a number of ways
the couple can discern whether they really love each other
[26/Feb/2002:21:33:28] <Father Phillip> can they read I Corinthians
13 to each other consistently over a period of time
[26/Feb/2002:21:33:48] <Father Phillip> and can they say, 'this
chapter of the Scripture really does mostly describe our relationship'
[26/Feb/2002:21:34:03] <Father Phillip> if they can say that, then
there is a good chance that they do love each other
[26/Feb/2002:21:34:20] <Father Phillip> the greeks give us some
other clues that are helpful in determining whether a couple loves each other
[26/Feb/2002:21:34:32] <Father Phillip> eros -- erotic or sexual
love
[26/Feb/2002:21:34:44] <Father Phillip> do the couple feel sexually
attracted to each other
[26/Feb/2002:21:35:09] <Father Phillip> while sexual love is not
all that's involved in marriage, it is an important and intrinsic component
of married love
[26/Feb/2002:21:35:17] <Father Phillip> philia -- the love of friendship
[26/Feb/2002:21:35:27] <Father Phillip> do the couple feel 'comfortable'
with each other
[26/Feb/2002:21:35:38] <Father Phillip> can they enjoy each other's
presence without groping each other
[26/Feb/2002:21:35:53] <Father Phillip> can they just hang out
and be comfortable in silence with each other
[26/Feb/2002:21:36:06] <Father Phillip> this doesn't mean that
they have to share all their hobbies
[26/Feb/2002:21:36:49] <Father Phillip> but it does mean that the
couple has to have a level of comfort and ease with each other that doesn't
depend on constantly shared ACTIVITY and/or sex to make the relationship dynamic
[26/Feb/2002:21:36:57] <Father Phillip> agape -- the love of giving
[26/Feb/2002:21:37:08] <Father Phillip> this is the kind of love
that God has for us
[26/Feb/2002:21:37:32] <Father Phillip> agapaic love says, "I am
willing to put my wants and desires aside for the legitimate NEEDS of the other"
[26/Feb/2002:21:37:46] <Father Phillip> this aspect of love is
often called 'sacrificial love'
[26/Feb/2002:21:38:17] <Father Phillip> agapaic love assumes that
the couple can distinguish between wants and desires, on the one hand, and legitimate
needs, on the other
[26/Feb/2002:21:38:38] <Father Phillip> wants and desires are "would-be-nice-to-have's"
but they are NOT essential
[26/Feb/2002:21:38:56] <Father Phillip> whereas NEEDS are the absolutely-can't-be-lived-withouts
in life
[26/Feb/2002:21:39:21] <Father Phillip> needs are food, shelter,
clothing, drink, dignity, compassion, forgiveness, understanding, love
[26/Feb/2002:21:39:42] <Father Phillip> so, the first thing that
the Church's minister tries to help the couple figure out is whether they love
each other
[26/Feb/2002:21:39:57] <Father Phillip> Anna: what would be an
example of a want or desire?
[26/Feb/2002:21:40:03] <Father Phillip> good question
[26/Feb/2002:21:40:43] <Father Phillip> a want might be something
like: "I want to be freed from ALL responsibility in the home because I work
so hard and my work is so important to me."
[26/Feb/2002:21:41:10] <Father Phillip> Anna: ohh okay
[26/Feb/2002:21:41:22] <Father Phillip> ready to go on to@#
[26/Feb/2002:21:41:30] <Father Phillip> #2?
[26/Feb/2002:21:41:47] <Father Phillip> 2. Are you both MATURE
enough to enter into marriage?
[26/Feb/2002:21:42:13] <Father Phillip> maturity is a tough one
because it's usually 'measured' in zillions of little things
[26/Feb/2002:21:42:37] <Father Phillip> can you keep a job? are
you on time to most of your appointments? if you say you're doing to do something,
do you follow through?
[26/Feb/2002:21:43:47] <Father Phillip> maturity is something like
being able, within the limits of your native ability, to look at a situation,
figure out what's being asked, know what you are able to do to meet the request,
and then actually doing what you can to fulfill the commitment you've agreed
to
[26/Feb/2002:21:44:11] <Father Phillip> maturity is especially
tough in our american world
[26/Feb/2002:21:45:25] <Father Phillip> a number of years ago i
was told that the american psychological association (an organization not well
known for always doing what the Catholic Church thought they should do!), said
that american males leave adolsence at about age 33 and american women at about
age 30
[26/Feb/2002:21:45:56] <Father Phillip> so, if they're right, many
folks who have chosen to get married only have the capacity to make "adolescent
decisions"
[26/Feb/2002:21:46:02] <Father Phillip> that's a pretty sobering
fact
[26/Feb/2002:21:46:07] <Father Phillip> Anna: could it also be
owning up to and taking responsibility for actions that we have already commited
[26/Feb/2002:21:46:31] <Father Phillip> yes, Anna, i certainly
think that is an excellent way of thinking about maturity
[26/Feb/2002:21:46:36] <Father Phillip> but you get the picture
[26/Feb/2002:21:47:08] <Father Phillip> the Church's minister is
trying to help the couple discern whether they have the maturity that is needed
to enter into the bond of marriage
[26/Feb/2002:21:47:41] <Father Phillip> 3. Is the relationship
one which is being entered into with the commitment to be PERMANENT?
[26/Feb/2002:21:48:00] <Father Phillip> in our extremely mobile
society, permanence is sometimes even looked down on
[26/Feb/2002:21:48:24] <Father Phillip> yet the Catholic Church
wants us to enter marriage with the commitment to be permanent
[26/Feb/2002:21:48:42] <Father Phillip> that's the intention behind
the famous "till-death-do-us-part"
[26/Feb/2002:21:49:07] <Father Phillip> in other words, do you
intend to stay in this relationship even, and especially, when the going gets
really tough?
[26/Feb/2002:21:49:34] <Father Phillip> again, this is a hard one
to discern...but over time it usually becomes obvious...
[26/Feb/2002:21:49:50] <Father Phillip> 4. Are you sufficiently
FREE to enter into the bond of marriage?
[26/Feb/2002:21:50:12] <Father Phillip> Anna: well i suppose no
one ever really enters marriage thinking, "We'll get divorced in 3 years," right?
In that way, I suppose this one is extremely related to what you said about
maturity and the ability to make a commitment to something and carry through
with it
[26/Feb/2002:21:50:34] <Father Phillip> exactly -- all of these
six 'aspects' of marriage are very inter-related
[26/Feb/2002:21:50:51] <Father Phillip> that's why you can't say
that you have a real marriage is only four out of six are present!
[26/Feb/2002:21:50:59] <Father Phillip> it's all six or it ain't
no marriage!
[26/Feb/2002:21:51:21] <Father Phillip> it's kind of amazing, but
what the Catholic Church teaches does, in fact, make sense
[26/Feb/2002:21:51:29] <Father Phillip> they been at this stuff
for a really long time!
[26/Feb/2002:21:51:36] <Father Phillip> Anna: makes sense!
[26/Feb/2002:21:51:47] <Father Phillip> so, back to FREEDOM
[26/Feb/2002:21:51:57] <Father Phillip> Anna: haha.. yeah they
should have some pretty good insight by now
[26/Feb/2002:21:52:27] <Father Phillip> God has created us in such
a way that we are most fulfilled and content when we FREELY chose to follow
the divine call
[26/Feb/2002:21:52:50] <Father Phillip> so being sufficiently free
is crucial to hearing God's call to marriage and to saying, "Yes!" to that call
[26/Feb/2002:21:53:30] <Father Phillip> unfortunately, many people
enter into marriage because of some kind of internal or external compulsion
which impedes their freedom and makes it almost impossible to hear God's call
clearly
[26/Feb/2002:21:53:35] <Father Phillip> for example,
[26/Feb/2002:21:54:16] <Father Phillip> "I have grown up poor,
she's going to be a doctor who will have money; i can learn to love her, so
I'll marry her."
[26/Feb/2002:21:54:44] <Father Phillip> that person is not freely
choosing to marry a particular person, he is, rather, 'freely' choosing that
person's money and status
[26/Feb/2002:21:54:50] <Father Phillip> Anna: yeah
[26/Feb/2002:21:55:40] <Father Phillip> "He's the most handsome
man who's ever taken an interest in me; I'll never get so lucky again, i'm sure
that i can overlook all those things about him that irritate me so much; so
i'll marry him."
[26/Feb/2002:21:56:23] <Father Phillip> again, that person is not
freely choosing to marry a particular person, rather, she is marrying out of
FEAR that another really handsome man may never be attracted to her ; this is
not freedom
[26/Feb/2002:21:56:42] <Father Phillip> the third example of this
lack of freedom is
[26/Feb/2002:21:56:53] <Father Phillip> "I'm pregnant, so we have
to get married right away."
[26/Feb/2002:21:56:57] <Father Phillip> WRONG!
[26/Feb/2002:21:57:11] <Father Phillip> the Church says in that
situation, GO SLOW!
[26/Feb/2002:21:57:15] <Father Phillip> go even slower than usual
[26/Feb/2002:21:57:54] <Father Phillip> when a child has been conceived,
the woman and the man are called to be parents, loving, devoted, good parents...or
possibly to put the child up for adoption
[26/Feb/2002:21:58:30] <Father Phillip> but a child's presence
in the relationship-equation is not a 'speed up' signal; it's a go really, really
slow
[26/Feb/2002:21:59:00] <Father Phillip> the child, in this context,
impinges on the freedom of either the man or the woman to make a truly FREE
decision about whether God has called them to marriage
[26/Feb/2002:21:59:20] <Father Phillip> 5. Are you open to children?
[26/Feb/2002:21:59:42] <Father Phillip> the Church's minister also
has to help the couple discern whether they recognize that love is always fruitful
[26/Feb/2002:21:59:51] <Father Phillip> love always moves beyond
itself
[26/Feb/2002:22:00:09] <Father Phillip> love, in most fundamental
sense, is creative and procreative
[26/Feb/2002:22:00:45] <Father Phillip> the easiest way for us
as Catholic Christians to talk about the fruitfulness of married love to ask
whether the couple is open to God's gift of children
[26/Feb/2002:22:01:04] <Father Phillip> now, marriage does NOT
confer an automatic "right" to have children
[26/Feb/2002:22:01:28] <Father Phillip> but married love always
calls the couple beyond themselves into loving, life-giving relationships
[26/Feb/2002:22:01:52] <Father Phillip> and that couple must be
open to that life-giving potential of all love
[26/Feb/2002:22:02:00] <Father Phillip> so far, so good?
[26/Feb/2002:22:02:11] <Father Phillip> Anna: great
[26/Feb/2002:22:02:20] <Father Phillip> and (drum roll!!!!)
[26/Feb/2002:22:02:32] <Father Phillip> the sixth component of
married love is
[26/Feb/2002:22:02:46] <Father Phillip> 6. Is there a Christian
commitment in the relationship?
[26/Feb/2002:22:03:07] <Father Phillip> if both parties are baptized
persons, they must recognize that God is player in the relationship
[26/Feb/2002:22:03:22] <Father Phillip> remember that marriage
is a gift, a call from God in the first place
[26/Feb/2002:22:04:17] <Father Phillip> in english grammar we used
to learn that when TWO items are compared we use the word "between" but when
THREE or more items are compared, we use the word "among"
[26/Feb/2002:22:04:58] <Father Phillip> well, a Christian marriage
is never BETWEEN two people only, but it always AMONG three: Woman-God-Man....Man-God-Woman....God-Man-Woman
[26/Feb/2002:22:05:02] <Father Phillip> get the idea?
[26/Feb/2002:22:05:30] <Father Phillip> and the Church's minister
has to help the couple discern whether God is in the middle of their relationship
[26/Feb/2002:22:06:12] <Father Phillip> we're not saying that they
have to say 15 decades of the Rosary every night (although every Christian couple
SHOULD pray together, and the Rosary is a great prayer!)
[26/Feb/2002:22:06:34] <Father Phillip> but we are saying that
the couple must recognize God as integral to their relationship
[26/Feb/2002:22:07:43] <Father Phillip> if one of the parties is
not a baptized person we would use other language to help the couple discern
whether they see and recognize and welcome the reality of Transcendence in their
relationship -- we must always be respectful of every person's conscience and
not try to impose our way of doing things on people
[26/Feb/2002:22:07:55] <Father Phillip> so, there you have it --
in a nutshell --
[26/Feb/2002:22:08:01] <Father Phillip> six things with a preface...
[26/Feb/2002:22:08:11] <Father Phillip> Anna: so.. is it fair to
say that when two people enter into a marriage, they lose a certain amount of
their own independence? in order to sacrifice for each other and for God.. prayer
becomes something less for the individual and more for the couple?
[26/Feb/2002:22:08:24] <Father Phillip> well, a couple of responses:
[26/Feb/2002:22:08:42] <Father Phillip> a. 'independence' is sort
of a false myth
[26/Feb/2002:22:08:51] <Father Phillip> we're really not ever 'independent'
[26/Feb/2002:22:09:24] <Father Phillip> in fact, growing ever more
mature in Christ is, in some senses, mostly growing in the awareness of our
dependence on one another and on God
[26/Feb/2002:22:09:28] <Father Phillip> Anna: yeah.. i couldn't
think of a better word for that.. not exactly what i meant
[26/Feb/2002:22:09:36] <Father Phillip> how 'bout this?
[26/Feb/2002:22:10:21] <Father Phillip> when a couple marries they
are called to put aside their false notions of autonomy and independence for
a more mature understanding of the Truth that we are profoundly interdependent
[26/Feb/2002:22:10:55] <Father Phillip> and precisely as a married
couple the primary, life-giving locus of that interdependence is to be found
in their married partner
[26/Feb/2002:22:11:01] <Father Phillip> Anna: I like that explanation.
[26/Feb/2002:22:11:32] <Father Phillip> b. prayer is essential
for the couple, to be sure
[26/Feb/2002:22:12:10] <Father Phillip> but couple prayer is most
fully life-transforming and life-giving when the couple's prayer is rooted in
the personal prayer of both partners
[26/Feb/2002:22:13:16] <Father Phillip> prayer -- like SO MUCH
of married life -- is best done together, but both partners must retain their
own personal integrity and individuality -- for these are God's gifts to the
relationship...and to the world
[26/Feb/2002:22:13:54] <Father Phillip> so, a strong couple prayer
life is best based on a strong personal prayer life
[26/Feb/2002:22:14:05] <Father Phillip> make sense? does that get
to your question?
[26/Feb/2002:22:14:29] <Father Phillip> Anna: yes! thank you..
it helps ever so much
[26/Feb/2002:22:14:36] <Father Phillip> so about decrees of nullity
[26/Feb/2002:22:15:17] <Father Phillip> a decree of nullity is
when, under the guidance of God's Holy Spirit, the Catholic Church says that
one or more of those six components of marriage was/were missing from the out-set
[26/Feb/2002:22:16:06] <Father Phillip> and therefore, the Catholic
Church says that a valid, binding, sacramental marriage never existed, contrary
to the opinions and thoughts of virtually everybody who might have been involved
[26/Feb/2002:22:16:35] <Father Phillip> and when the Church solemnly
renders that judgment, under the guidance of the Spirit, the Catholic parties
are free to marry in the Catholic Church
[26/Feb/2002:22:16:40] <Father Phillip> Anna: that makes much more
sense now
[26/Feb/2002:22:16:47] <Father Phillip> good...glad it helps
[26/Feb/2002:22:18:57]
<Father Phillip> Anna: I have another question, but would someone
else like to have a turn?
[26/Feb/2002:22:19:02] <Father Phillip> go for it...:-)
[26/Feb/2002:22:21:08] <Father Phillip> Anna: :-) reaching back
to what you said about having the call of God to marriage.. Through prayer,
how do we actually discern between what God wants for us and what we in fact
may just want for ourselves? How much of God is inherently a part of us and
how much of Him is very separate? How do we know which part of ourselves to
listen to?
[26/Feb/2002:22:21:46] <Father Phillip> Anna, let me post another
question and we'll come back to this one in a minute...
Ways of learning about
Catholicism
[26/Feb/2002:22:21:50] <Father
Phillip> HopAlee: Is there a "Catholiscism for Dummies" book? If not,
how would you reccommend a person investigate into Catholicism to see if it
is right for them?
[26/Feb/2002:22:22:06] <Father Phillip> hummm....good question!
[26/Feb/2002:22:22:21] <Father Phillip> maybe i'm too much of a
Dummy to know...i'm trying to think
[26/Feb/2002:22:23:07] <Father Phillip> maybe if anybody is out
there in the auditorium who knows of a good book like this, you could give me
the title so i could post it...thanks!
[26/Feb/2002:22:23:26] <Father Phillip> well, one thing that is
helpful is going to Mass, HopAlee
[26/Feb/2002:22:23:44] <Father Phillip> anybody is welcome to a
Catholic service -- you don't have to be Catholic
[26/Feb/2002:22:24:15] <Father Phillip> we ask that you not take
Holy Communion, but you are welcome to pray and sing and listen to the Word
of God and just to hang out with us
[26/Feb/2002:22:24:37] <Father Phillip> if you have a Catholic
friend ask her or him if you could tag along to Mass with her or him to see
if it 'feels' right
[26/Feb/2002:22:25:17] <Father Phillip> we have a "thing" in the
Catholic Church called the RCIA which is designed specficially to help people
investigate whether Catholicism is right for them
[26/Feb/2002:22:25:48] <Father Phillip> RCIA stands for Rite of
Chritian Initiation for Adults (RCIA)...
[26/Feb/2002:22:25:52] <Father Phillip> HopAlee: yes, I agree.
I went this past Sunday. I found that many of my questions were answered with
just one of your sermons, but I still have more. I am a Catholic, but a Sunday
School Drop out at that. I have had First Communion.. but after that... confusion
set in. N\ow I am ready for more.
[26/Feb/2002:22:26:18] <Father Phillip> you're in a totally indentifiable
place!
[26/Feb/2002:22:26:27] <Father Phillip> lots of us have confusion
[26/Feb/2002:22:26:56] <Father Phillip> but one of the totally
good things about God is that God is always glad to have us, to see us, to welcome
us even with, maybe ESPECIALLY with our confusion
[26/Feb/2002:22:27:14] <Father Phillip> confusion is a sign that
you're thinking and searching
[26/Feb/2002:22:27:24] <Father Phillip> good luck and God bless
in the search
[26/Feb/2002:22:27:29] <Father Phillip> one last word:
[26/Feb/2002:22:27:55] <Father Phillip> you can go to the Newman
web page www.newman-chapelhill.org and there's a link there called "Info on
becoming Catholic"
[26/Feb/2002:22:28:06] <Father Phillip> that link has infor about
the RCIA at Newman
[26/Feb/2002:22:28:11] <Father Phillip> HopAlee: Thanks, I will
look into it.
[26/Feb/2002:22:28:35] <Father Phillip> HopAlee: Thank you, I will
be back this Saturday and I will investigate the webpage!
[26/Feb/2002:22:28:43] <Father Phillip> You're ALWAYS welcome!
[26/Feb/2002:22:28:44] <Father Phillip> :-)
[26/Feb/2002:22:30:42] <Father Phillip> HopAlee: That is a comforting
thought. ;-)
[26/Feb/2002:22:30:47] <Father Phillip> you bet it is!
[26/Feb/2002:22:31:06] <Father Phillip> and it's an absolute, 100%
true fact!
[26/Feb/2002:22:31:25] <Father Phillip> God is ALWAYS and in every
case delighted to see us!!!
[26/Feb/2002:22:32:48] <Father Phillip> if anybody else wants to
ask a question, cool...otherwise, i'll go back to the one Anna asked a couple
of minutes ago...
Ways of discovering God's Will for me
Click here for more information
on this topic.
[26/Feb/2002:22:33:50] <Father
Phillip> Anna: :-) reaching back to what you said about having the call
of God to marriage.. Through prayer, how do we actually discern between what
God wants for us and what we in fact may just want for ourselves? How much of
God is inherently a part of us and how much of Him is very separate? How do
we know which part of ourselves to listen to?
[26/Feb/2002:22:34:20] <Father Phillip> first off, let's be clear:
[26/Feb/2002:22:35:00] <Father Phillip> the Catholic Church believes
that God is utterly, totally, completely separate from us...or, more accurately,
we are creatures whereas God is the Creator
[26/Feb/2002:22:35:22] <Father Phillip> we would never be comfortable
saying that "God is inherently a part of us"
[26/Feb/2002:22:35:46] <Father Phillip> but that's not really the
thrust of the question, i don't think
[26/Feb/2002:22:36:22] <Father Phillip> by the way, God-being-part-of-us/us-being-part-of-us
is called the heresy of panentheism
[26/Feb/2002:22:36:23] <Father Phillip> :-)
[26/Feb/2002:22:36:27] <Father Phillip> Anna: but being creations
of God, are we not somehow related to him?
[26/Feb/2002:22:36:33] <Father Phillip> absolutely!
[26/Feb/2002:22:36:53] <Father Phillip> we are definitely 'related'
to God but God is not ''a part of us''
[26/Feb/2002:22:37:03] <Father Phillip> Anna: okay
[26/Feb/2002:22:37:15] <Father Phillip> and we're not ''part of
God'' either
[26/Feb/2002:22:37:25] <Father Phillip> we separate though related
by grace
[26/Feb/2002:22:38:37] <Father Phillip> your question, though,
really goes to how we discern what God is calling us to as compared to what
"we may in fact just want for ourselves"?
[26/Feb/2002:22:38:39] <Father Phillip> right?
[26/Feb/2002:22:39:04] <Father Phillip> Anna: exactly... how do
we know when He is speaking to us?
[26/Feb/2002:22:39:12] <Father Phillip> ahhhh...and there's the
rub!
[26/Feb/2002:22:39:28] <Father Phillip> no definitive answers here
tonight, but some comments
[26/Feb/2002:22:39:35] <Father Phillip> first off, it takes practice
[26/Feb/2002:22:39:58] <Father Phillip> some people -- some, but
not most -- get 'burning bushes'...and i do believe that really, truly happened...
[26/Feb/2002:22:40:05] <Father Phillip> but it's not the norm for
most people
[26/Feb/2002:22:40:19] <Father Phillip> rather God tends to speak
in "a small still voice"
[26/Feb/2002:22:40:42] <Father Phillip> and we have to quiet ourselves
and our environments so that we can hear that small, still voice
[26/Feb/2002:22:41:11] <Father Phillip> we have to make determined,
concerted efforts to rid our environments -- both external and internal -- of
all the loudness
[26/Feb/2002:22:41:30] <Father Phillip> that noise all too often
drowns out the small still voice
[26/Feb/2002:22:41:51] <Father Phillip> so, it takes practice --
practive at being quiet, practive at listening and hearing
[26/Feb/2002:22:42:22] <Father Phillip> another component of knowing
when God is speaking to us is learning to read the signs of the times, as Pope
John 23 said
[26/Feb/2002:22:42:30] <Father Phillip> Anna: meditating?
[26/Feb/2002:22:42:35] <Father Phillip> well, maybe meditating
[26/Feb/2002:22:43:12] <Father Phillip> in Catholic traditions
of prayer and spirituality ''meditating'' has a kind of technical meaning and
way of doing it
[26/Feb/2002:22:43:21] <Father Phillip> i'm saying something less
technical and more general
[26/Feb/2002:22:43:40] <Father Phillip> putting ourselves in an
attitude of openness to the small still voice of God
[26/Feb/2002:22:43:44] <Father Phillip> Anna: okay
[26/Feb/2002:22:44:14] <Father Phillip> Anna: being that way all
the time or just when we pray?
[26/Feb/2002:22:44:22] <Father Phillip> all the time is our goal...
[26/Feb/2002:22:45:06] <Father Phillip> 'just' when we pray is
the discipline, the positively indispensalbe discipline, which helps the Holy
Spirit form that attitude of prayerful openness to God at all times
[26/Feb/2002:22:46:23] <Father Phillip> Anna: moments of prayer
permeate all aspects of our lives, then
[26/Feb/2002:22:46:28] <Father Phillip> yepper!
[26/Feb/2002:22:46:48] <Father Phillip> that's what we're looking
for -- God breaking in, surprising us with grace at every moment!
[26/Feb/2002:22:46:54] <Father Phillip> Anna: :-)
The Perpetual Virginity of Mary
For more information on this question, please click here
[26/Feb/2002:22:47:45] <Father Phillip> Kimberly: I was
wondering about what the Church's teaching that Mary was Immaculately Conceived,
What does that mean? And if Jesus had brothers or sisters, from my understanding,
how was Mary still a virgin?
[26/Feb/2002:22:48:24] <Father Phillip> lucylu: i was wondering
if paul and jesus advocated fundamentally the same religion?
[26/Feb/2002:22:48:40] <Father Phillip> we'll try to tackle these
one at a time...ok?
[26/Feb/2002:22:48:45] <Father Phillip> hang in with me...
[26/Feb/2002:22:49:42] <Father Phillip> first, Kimberly...go to
the FAQ
section of the CatholicQandA.org web site and read the answer there
under Mary...after you've read that, come back and we'll talk about the rest
of your question; ok?
Catholicism and the New Testament
Click here for more information on this topic.
[26/Feb/2002:22:49:57] <Father
Phillip> in the meantime, i'll say a word about lucylu's question...
[26/Feb/2002:22:50:16] <Father Phillip> the simple answer, lucylu,
is yes....
[26/Feb/2002:22:50:33] <Father Phillip> but it is, as you might
have guessed, a lot more complicated than just that...
[26/Feb/2002:22:50:44] <Father Phillip> Jesus came as Savior and
Redeemer...
[26/Feb/2002:22:51:17] <Father Phillip> Paul came as Apostle, evangelizer,
systematizer
[26/Feb/2002:22:51:22] <Father Phillip> lucylu: that's what i figure...u
got any proof that they did support the same religion
[26/Feb/2002:22:51:37] <Father Phillip> nope, no 'proof'...but,
some good conjectures
[26/Feb/2002:22:51:54] <Father Phillip> religion rarely admits
of 'proof' in the scientific sense
[26/Feb/2002:22:51:58] <Father Phillip> lucylu: ok lets hear it
:)
[26/Feb/2002:22:52:13] <Father Phillip> both Paul and Jesus were
Jewish
[26/Feb/2002:22:52:30] <Father Phillip> and neither ever explicitly
advocated a break from Judaism
[26/Feb/2002:22:53:22] <Father Phillip> in fact, Paul, for sure,
and Jesus pretty surely, saw the religion which he/they were advocating to be
the "fulfillment" of Judaism
[26/Feb/2002:22:53:44] <Father Phillip> so, in that sense both
were advocating a ''fulfilled Messianic Judaism"
[26/Feb/2002:22:54:28] <Father Phillip> lucylu: let's say if somebody
had to do a project on this particular topic...hypothetically
[26/Feb/2002:22:54:32] <Father Phillip> lucylu: do you know where
they could go for research?
[26/Feb/2002:22:54:41] <Father Phillip> yeah, i know :-)
[26/Feb/2002:22:54:42] <Father Phillip> do you?
[26/Feb/2002:22:54:57] <Father Phillip> i wouldn't be writing a
paper, would i??? :-)
[26/Feb/2002:22:55:03] <Father Phillip> lucylu: not a clue
[26/Feb/2002:22:55:15] <Father Phillip> lucylu: it's more like
a presentation :)
[26/Feb/2002:22:55:18] <Father Phillip> glad to help!
[26/Feb/2002:22:55:21] <Father Phillip> :-)
[26/Feb/2002:22:55:50] <Father Phillip> first, you need to define
your terms, especially, what are you going to say "religion" means in the context
of your presentation
[26/Feb/2002:22:56:00] <Father Phillip> identify three or four
terms
[26/Feb/2002:22:56:27] <Father Phillip> then on the basis of the
Scriptural evidence, see if, first, Jesus and then Paul advocated those terms
[26/Feb/2002:22:56:35] <Father Phillip> lucylu: what they believed,
like christ as in savior of the world
[26/Feb/2002:22:56:38] <Father Phillip> yes, maybe
[26/Feb/2002:22:56:48] <Father Phillip> but, i was thinking more
like,
[26/Feb/2002:22:57:04] <Father Phillip> religions usually have
some kind of structure to them
[26/Feb/2002:22:57:23] <Father Phillip> did Paul and/or Jesus advocate
a religious structure?
[26/Feb/2002:22:57:29] <Father Phillip> if so, what was that structure
[26/Feb/2002:22:57:58] <Father Phillip> religions usually have
some kinds of rules and regulations governing the moral behaviour of the people
[26/Feb/2002:22:58:02] <Father Phillip> lucylu: i think it's more
like their belief in Jesus and Christianity
[26/Feb/2002:22:58:07] <Father Phillip> lucylu: not the structure
[26/Feb/2002:22:58:12] <Father Phillip> lucylu: it's using it back
when the gospel were written
[26/Feb/2002:22:58:17] <Father Phillip> ok
[26/Feb/2002:22:58:35] <Father Phillip> lucylu: comparing the gospels
to the letters from paul
[26/Feb/2002:22:58:41] <Father Phillip> yes...that's what you need
to do!
[26/Feb/2002:22:58:52] <Father Phillip> comparing the Gospels and
the Letters of Paul
[26/Feb/2002:22:59:25] <Father Phillip> but you need to identify
what the criteria are on which you are going to make your comparison
[26/Feb/2002:22:59:30] <Father Phillip> lucylu: i know, but are
there any sources outside of the gospel...i can't seem to find any
[26/Feb/2002:22:59:56] <Father Phillip> no, there are no sources,
contemporary to the Gospels or Paul's letters outside the Scripture
[26/Feb/2002:23:00:16] <Father Phillip> lucylu: is this a debated
subject?
[26/Feb/2002:23:00:19] <Father Phillip> lucylu: oh no, what am
i going to do??
[26/Feb/2002:23:01:02] <Father Phillip> one of my campus ministry
colleagues from NCState, just suggested that you might use as one of the points
of comparison how Jesus related to women as compared to how Paul related to
women
[26/Feb/2002:23:01:07] <Father Phillip> don't panic...
[26/Feb/2002:23:01:33] <Father Phillip> choose two or three questions
like the ones i/we have suggested here....
[26/Feb/2002:23:01:41] <Father Phillip> read the Gospels and read
Paul's letters
[26/Feb/2002:23:02:31] <Father Phillip> see how the Gospels and
Paul's letters can respond to your questions...and use those to make your presentation
The "Brothers" and "Sisters" of Jesus
For more information on this question, please click here
View
a previous Q&A conversation on a related topic
[26/Feb/2002:23:02:47] <Father Phillip> now, i am going
to Kimberly's questions...
[26/Feb/2002:23:03:00] <Father Phillip> good luck, lucylu...and
if we have some time...we'll come back to this
[26/Feb/2002:23:03:05] <Father Phillip> Kimberly: Father, I read
the FAQ on Mary and I understand more about the different way of looking at
the world as God does, but my next question would be did Jesus have other siblings?
[26/Feb/2002:23:03:31] <Father Phillip> ok, Kimberly...good question...
[26/Feb/2002:23:03:56] <Father Phillip> as Catholics, we believe
that Jesus had no blood brothers or sisters
[26/Feb/2002:23:04:16] <Father Phillip> we believe that the Blessed
Virgin Mary gave birth to only one child and that child was Jesus
[26/Feb/2002:23:04:19] <Father Phillip> BUT
[26/Feb/2002:23:04:32] <Father Phillip> the Scriptures refers to
people as the sisters and brothers of Jesus
[26/Feb/2002:23:04:42] <Father Phillip> at one place even some
of their names are given
[26/Feb/2002:23:04:48] <Father Phillip> so, who are these people?!?!
[26/Feb/2002:23:05:14] <Father Phillip> well, the Catholic Church
that we must believe that Mary had only one child to whom she gave birth
[26/Feb/2002:23:05:53] <Father Phillip> but the Church allows us
a certain freedom when it comes to how we respond the conundrum about these
people the Scripture identifies as brothers and sisters of Jesus
[26/Feb/2002:23:06:09] <Father Phillip> let me give you a couple
of ways you might want to think about it; ok?
[26/Feb/2002:23:07:45] <Father Phillip> first -- and least convincing
to me -- we certainly say that Jesus is the "elder brother" to all His followers,
so it is correct to say that these "brothers and sisters" of Jesus were simply
people among His followers,all of whom can be called brothers and sisters of
Jesus
[26/Feb/2002:23:08:19] <Father Phillip> second -- and more appealingly
to me personally -- families in that age 2000 years ago lived, usually, in extended
family groupings
[26/Feb/2002:23:09:01] <Father Phillip> Mary, being the perfectly
maternal one, opened her home and her heart to these cousins and other relations
in this extended family
[26/Feb/2002:23:09:32] <Father Phillip> these other children were
raised with Jesus and were simply known around the village as His'brothers and
sisters'
[26/Feb/2002:23:09:44] <Father Phillip> third -- and most pleasing
to me --
[26/Feb/2002:23:10:01] <Father Phillip> childbirth was the biggest
killer of women in that era
[26/Feb/2002:23:10:23] <Father Phillip> very often the child lived
while the birth mother died
[26/Feb/2002:23:10:48] <Father Phillip> since the father needed
a wife to care for the children, he would often remarry fairly quickly
[26/Feb/2002:23:11:14] <Father Phillip> it was, therefore, not
unusual for a man to have two, three, or even more wives...who were progressively
younger than himself
[26/Feb/2002:23:11:36] <Father Phillip> the Scriptures do not show
us the presence of Saint Joseph after the 12th year of Jesus' earthly life
[26/Feb/2002:23:12:06] <Father Phillip> some people conclude that
Joseph may have been an older man who died sometimeafter that encounter in the
Temple with the Child Jesus
[26/Feb/2002:23:12:54] <Father Phillip> Saint Joseph may have previous
wives who died in childbirth, and he may have married the young girl Mary who
gave birth to God's Son...
[26/Feb/2002:23:13:19] <Father Phillip> but she would have been
compassionate and caring for those other children from mothers who had died...
[26/Feb/2002:23:13:34] <Father Phillip> and these could be the
'brothers and sisters' of Jesus mentioned in the Scripture
[26/Feb/2002:23:13:42] <Father Phillip> Kimberly: So Mary was never
really a wife but really only seen as a Mother
[26/Feb/2002:23:13:47] <Father Phillip> nope...
[26/Feb/2002:23:14:02] <Father Phillip> the Church says that Mary
was truly a Mother, but that she was also truly a wife
Immaculate
Conception
[26/Feb/2002:23:15:14] <Father Phillip> Kimberly: So what does
it mean that the Church teaches that Mary was Immaculately Conceived?
[26/Feb/2002:23:16:29] <Father Phillip> well, the Church's teaching
that Mary was Immaculately Conceived is a way the Church has of saying that
God preserved Mary free from the stain of original sin at the very moment of
her conception in the womb of her mother (who is traditionally called Saint
Ann)
[26/Feb/2002:23:17:10] <Father Phillip> Mary was conceived by "an
act of natural generation" between Saint Ann and Saint Joachim, the traditional
name of Mary's father
[26/Feb/2002:23:17:17] <Father Phillip> Kimberly: Why would She
need to be free from original sin?
[26/Feb/2002:23:17:44] <Father Phillip> The Church says that God
graciously chose to keep her free from original sin for two reasons mainly
[26/Feb/2002:23:18:24] <Father Phillip> first, it was to give her
the physical body that would allow the Savior to take flesh from her womb and
have flesh that would not itself be tained by sinfulness
[26/Feb/2002:23:18:58] <Father Phillip> second, Mary was free from
sin so that she could respond in utter, complete, total freedom to God's invitation
to become the Mother of Jesus
[26/Feb/2002:23:19:10] <Father Phillip> sin impairs one's ability
to respond in complete freedom to God
[26/Feb/2002:23:19:23] <Father Phillip> our slavery to sin keeps
us from being able to hear God's call
[26/Feb/2002:23:19:31] <Father Phillip> Kimberly: So Mary was also
free from any sin, just like Jesus?
[26/Feb/2002:23:19:39] <Father Phillip> well, yes and no
[26/Feb/2002:23:19:41] <Father Phillip> :-)
[26/Feb/2002:23:19:52] <Father Phillip> Mary was free from actual
sin -- yes
[26/Feb/2002:23:20:53] <Father Phillip> but Mary's freedom from
actual sin was the result of God's gracious act...so we might say Mary's sinlessness
was the result of what God-in-Jesus did
[26/Feb/2002:23:21:26] <Father Phillip> whereas, Jesus was sinless
because He is the incarnation of the Divine Second Person of the Most Blessed
Trinity though a man like us in all things but sin
[26/Feb/2002:23:22:02] <Father Phillip> while i don't think the
Church actually talks this way, it might be ok to say that Mary's sinlessness
is 'derivative' while Jesus' sinlessness is 'original'
[26/Feb/2002:23:22:40] <Father Phillip> well, i'll tell you what,
boys and girls, it's late
[26/Feb/2002:23:22:45] <Father Phillip> and i'm pretty tired
[26/Feb/2002:23:23:06] <Father Phillip> and the live part of the
CatholicQandA is supposed to end about 11 pm
[26/Feb/2002:23:23:15] <Father Phillip> so maybe i'll say farewell
[26/Feb/2002:23:23:18] <Father Phillip> Kimberly: Thanks for your
input
[26/Feb/2002:23:23:25] <Father Phillip> feel free to email us any
other questions
[26/Feb/2002:23:23:40] <Father Phillip> and be sure to check out
th e FAQ section of this site
[26/Feb/2002:23:23:46] <Father Phillip> Kimberly: Goodnight
[26/Feb/2002:23:23:50] <Father Phillip> Anna: Thank you very much,
Father Phillip
[26/Feb/2002:23:23:53] <Father Phillip> a pleasure!
[26/Feb/2002:23:23:57] <Father Phillip> Blessings!